Beautifully written, Joe, and sadly so true. What is the solution? Help is despartly (sp?) needed, but how can it happen with the terrible, damaging government situation we are now in? Your friend Anna in Palo Alto.
No one knows, but I have had a feelinng-theory that caused me to start writing this. I think we been going down hill since about the time we were together in Palo Alto. I saw this coming, not quite such a complete disaster but while I was on the national Board of Common Cause in the 8o’s I have been preparing to absorb something really bad. But I always had this hope that it had to get bad enough to make the big improvements, to see what was wrong and start gettig genuine reform. We stand on a brink, as I see it. We are going to lose our democracy or we are going to blame it all on Trump instead of ourselves and try to go back to Obama having to fight the racist Tea Party hazzels, or we will wake up to correct that which is wrong — and that is becoming ever more apparent to ever more and more people. Who knows. I don’t. But them’s my thoughts.
A long time since I read the Republic but I am reminded of his thoughts about “politicians” - I forget his word for this class. His thought was that everyone has “self-interest” and therefore would not be able to necessarily rule for the common good. His solution: take infants at birth, they would never know who their parents were; put them in an isolated place (think monastery) where they would be raised, educated (including arts, sports, etc); their bare needs would be taken care of for life; when they were of age (forget the year) they would become a part of the “legislature” (forget the word) where they would naturally rule in the best interests of the country.
I forget, but assume he knew this would never happen, but it is a reminder of why so many politicians are as corrupt as they are, and always have been.
Great addition to the information about Plato’s views. My first thought on recollection of this was how it suits an assumption that has lasted up to the minute and won’t go away: there must be a ruling class, trained from childhood socially and exclusively, to know how to operate the government when they grow up. I am thinking of the way so many, especially conservative, nod to Edmond Burk as the voice of good, solid, dependable government. He thought the aristocracy formed the ruling class.
Yeah, and look at what happened/happens when an aristocracy takes over. They govern entirely in their own self interest until the people get angry enough to revolt.
Plato's isolated ruling class would not have been able to govern well, even if they would have been free of corruption by virtue of their training and isolation. Why? If so isolated, they would not be aware of the needs of the people. Why not try to better educate more people so that they can see what is happening in our government? Develop a curriculum that is truly relevant to the times and allow for learning differences. We continue to silo people in our educational institutions and this has contributed to the silos we see in our communities.
I love the fact that one reader made a comment that then elicited two comments. Having this sort of back and forth discussion is exactly what I hope for. I agree with all three comments of these completely, but that is not the point. I hope some are made that disagree with me or that I can disagree with comments — all for the process of learning. Back to the comments, it may be interesting to consider that there is one state/religous institution that takes a baby and raises him (always a male) to be the religious and governmental leader, almost exactly as Plato recommended. The baby is the Dali Lama. (Isn’t that right?)
Beautifully written, Joe, and sadly so true. What is the solution? Help is despartly (sp?) needed, but how can it happen with the terrible, damaging government situation we are now in? Your friend Anna in Palo Alto.
No one knows, but I have had a feelinng-theory that caused me to start writing this. I think we been going down hill since about the time we were together in Palo Alto. I saw this coming, not quite such a complete disaster but while I was on the national Board of Common Cause in the 8o’s I have been preparing to absorb something really bad. But I always had this hope that it had to get bad enough to make the big improvements, to see what was wrong and start gettig genuine reform. We stand on a brink, as I see it. We are going to lose our democracy or we are going to blame it all on Trump instead of ourselves and try to go back to Obama having to fight the racist Tea Party hazzels, or we will wake up to correct that which is wrong — and that is becoming ever more apparent to ever more and more people. Who knows. I don’t. But them’s my thoughts.
A long time since I read the Republic but I am reminded of his thoughts about “politicians” - I forget his word for this class. His thought was that everyone has “self-interest” and therefore would not be able to necessarily rule for the common good. His solution: take infants at birth, they would never know who their parents were; put them in an isolated place (think monastery) where they would be raised, educated (including arts, sports, etc); their bare needs would be taken care of for life; when they were of age (forget the year) they would become a part of the “legislature” (forget the word) where they would naturally rule in the best interests of the country.
I forget, but assume he knew this would never happen, but it is a reminder of why so many politicians are as corrupt as they are, and always have been.
Great addition to the information about Plato’s views. My first thought on recollection of this was how it suits an assumption that has lasted up to the minute and won’t go away: there must be a ruling class, trained from childhood socially and exclusively, to know how to operate the government when they grow up. I am thinking of the way so many, especially conservative, nod to Edmond Burk as the voice of good, solid, dependable government. He thought the aristocracy formed the ruling class.
Yeah, and look at what happened/happens when an aristocracy takes over. They govern entirely in their own self interest until the people get angry enough to revolt.
Plato's isolated ruling class would not have been able to govern well, even if they would have been free of corruption by virtue of their training and isolation. Why? If so isolated, they would not be aware of the needs of the people. Why not try to better educate more people so that they can see what is happening in our government? Develop a curriculum that is truly relevant to the times and allow for learning differences. We continue to silo people in our educational institutions and this has contributed to the silos we see in our communities.
I love the fact that one reader made a comment that then elicited two comments. Having this sort of back and forth discussion is exactly what I hope for. I agree with all three comments of these completely, but that is not the point. I hope some are made that disagree with me or that I can disagree with comments — all for the process of learning. Back to the comments, it may be interesting to consider that there is one state/religous institution that takes a baby and raises him (always a male) to be the religious and governmental leader, almost exactly as Plato recommended. The baby is the Dali Lama. (Isn’t that right?)
Amen brother